Degeneration

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radicalchains
Degeneration
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What stops the ICC from degeneration?

What will stop the future Party from degeneration?

 

 

Alf
Big question

Big question!

There are no guarantees. The starting point is to recognise that the danger of degneration is ever-present because we live under the domination bourgeois ideology and the break from it, embodied in communist politics, is never total, and can always regresss. This is why it is illusory to expect revolutionary organisations to grow and develop without internal difficulties and, at certain points, crises. The combat is permanent and the same will apply to the future party until we can finally dissolve it into communism. But at least we can learn some lessons from the past. Even if the future party ever reached the size where 'taking power' seemed a serious possibility (which I doubt), the Russian revolution is there to remind us that this is not the role of the party. 

Fred
Hi, radical chains. You were

Hi, radical chains. You were asking similar questions sometime ago on another thread. (Was it "On Organisation"?) At one point Alf suggested that the ICC though not necessarily degenerating might just up and "disappear". No reasons were given. Fred panicked and wondered why this comment from Alf got no responses from anyone. Actually Fred still wonders about that. But this was Alf's reply.

"Hi Fred. I very much welcome your solidarity and concern and above all your call for the sympathsiers to take a more active part in supporting the work of the organisation (although many are already doing this in various ways). I didn't mean to create the impression of an immediate danger, but a longer term one, linked to the more general threat posed by the decomposition of the system. Remember I was also having a go at people who go on and on about how small and weak we (the communist left in general) are without seeing some of the more positive signs of a re-emerging revolutionary movement." There were no reponses to this that I know of. Just dumbness, or is it a refusal to acknowledge a problem?

Asking what stops something from degenerating (or just going wrong) is to me a bit like asking 'what's the point of struggling against capitalism if the universe is going to end one day in any case." This is a question raised on a couple of other thread recently, though maybe it's a joke. In fact we're all going to die one day anyway, so let's get over it and do something useful (and different) while still here; and fighting to dispose of tbe bourgeoisie is certainly useful, and definitely "different". As far as I can tell there are no signs of degeneration within the ICC - or ICT - as yet. And if there are then we must work to counteract and stop it. Maybe by signing up with a left communist organization. Maybe not. And as to the question 'what will stop the future party from degenerating?' Well, surely SUCCESS in achieving the Proletariat Dictatorship is one answer, and maintaining it Internationally another. Isn't the future of humanity still full of possibilities despite the lack of guarantees and the chances of degeneration?

 

radicalchains
I disagree with you Fred. I

I disagree with you Fred. I do not think my question is the same or that similar to the one about the universe/what's the point etc. I do recognise Alf's point about the threats from bourgeois ideology and I think the ICC go to great lengths highlighting and explaining this including the various nationalisms. What I am trying to get at with my questions are the practical measures an organisation and future world Party will have to incorporate. To guard against all bourgeois ideology and degeneration is necessary and to be expected but saying it in words is one thing, carrying out procedures or adhering to certain principles and methods might be what is required (but I have no idea what these are)? The case of the proposed Jury of Honour is something which really interested me. Although this is perhaps a slightly obscure case it seems to me a good concrete example. Especially so because it was rejected by other organisations in a sense. It was also something which existed in the tradition of the workers movement, not something the ICC 'made up'.

Asking about the probblem of degeneration in general? Well, the degeneration of the World Revolution and countless communist organisations is a pretty good reason I think. Hopefully this sheds a little more light on what I am really trying to get at.