Greece: Germany and France trying a way out of decomposition?

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mikail firtinaci
Greece: Germany and France trying a way out of decomposition?
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 With the bourgeoisie now openly attacking the working class with an unprecedented set of measures Greece is now looking like a clear battleground for working class and the capitalists. The wages are cut down by %22. The retirement pensions are cut by half. And now there begun a 2 days general strike:

http://www.occupiedlondon.org/blog/2012/02/09/48-hour-general-strike-ann...

What do you think of this situation? Do you think that presents an indication that the depth of crisis now reached is forcing the bourgeoisie out of its situation described in the thesis on decomposition and to attack openly against the working class? Do you think that this may be regarded as a trial effort by France-Germany coalition to force a new tactic against the working class to escape from decomposition?

 

Fred
mikail. You're not addressing

mikail. You're not addressing this question to me I know, but to the ICC (incidentally, I thought you were a member of it!) Maybe that means you'll get a response. Although this is a discussion forum, there's not much discussion, and little response from ICC members, though ex-members are better. If only the ICC would respond oftener, not long detailed answers, but short and to the point, sort of "one liners", that could help improve matters a bit. Because there must be more folk visiting this forum than actually speak up on it. Why are they quiet, and what are they waiting for? If the ICC would only let it's hair down a bit here, and reach out to ordinary workers, and young workers, and workers who don't want or need great dollops of intense theorizing, (not here, not now) we might actually get discussion going and more sympathizers and interested parties joining in. Workers should want to speak up here, regardless of their educational attainment, skill at writing, or knowledge of the Marxist classics. (Remembef Maldoror!) So ease up a bit beloved ICC

mikail. Surely the system's now so deep in it's decomposition, that it can never recover or go back? That the working class will at last see this is our only hope. I don't live in Europe but I imagine the continent to be so intensely on edge, so wound up, that if someone struck a match the whole place could explode. Don't you feel we're on the verge of something decisive?

Peter Pan
ICC answers, Class Struggle, Decomposition

Hi,

I am no ICC member, but I'm thinking of becoming one.

Fred wrote:
Although this is a discussion forum, there's not much discussion

Can you explain what you mean? To me it seems there is a lot of serious discussion on this site.

Fred wrote:
If only the ICC would respond oftener, not long detailed answers, but short and to the point, sort of "one liners", that could help improve matters a bit.

Yes, sometimes this could be good. On the other hand, sometimes longer answers are necessary. I think the ICC has improven a lot during the last 10 years. And I actually appreciate it when the ICC responds in an elaborate way on some comments and critics. A long answer can be a sign of respect. And it often contains off course more arguments, which we can use in the concrete social movements. Off course, short articles have their role to play as well. But what is the right balance of short vs long answers/articles?

Fred wrote:
Because there must be more folk visiting this forum than actually speak up on it. Why are they quiet, and what are they waiting for?

Yes, I also think more people visit the forum than actually speak up on it. I was for a long time one of these people. Most people visiting this site work, study and have lots of other things to do (e.g. work for the ICC). It is not easy to find yourself the necessary time for a serious answer. By "serious" I mean that you have to take the time to read the comment well, think about it and answer in a correct/positive way (short or long).

Fred wrote:
If the ICC would only let it's hair down a bit here, and reach out to ordinary workers, and young workers, and workers who don't want or need great dollops of intense theorizing, (not here, not now) we might actually get discussion going and more sympathizers and interested parties joining in.

Unfortunately a minimum level of theorizing is necessary, otherwise the revolution would have succeeded long ago. I agree that this is not easy and can work very discouraging for many workers. Any idea to make this more attractive?

Fred wrote:
Workers should want to speak up here, regardless of their educational attainment, skill at writing, or knowledge of the Marxist classics.

I totally agree.

Fred wrote:
Don't you feel we're on the verge of something decisive?

Considering the theses on decomposition. I didn't read them yet, but they are on my priorities list!

I also have the feeling that we are approaching an always more tense world situation. It is enough to look at all the movements we've seen since 2010. To me however nothing is 'determined', neither revolution nor destruction of humanity. The movements have braught me a lot of hope, and class consciousness is growing, especially in those regions where there were movements. However, in regions where there was no movement, the working class still seems to doubt greatly the possibility of resistence, the thrust in its own force. It is an enormous step to really make this step towards a general, unified struggle across sectors. If the parts of the working class, which have the recent experience, aren't capable of seeing beyond national and other borders and convince the other parts that they need to struggle like they have/are doing, then I fear the worst. I have confidence in the capacity of the working class to understand and change the world, but I'm also convinced that the revolutionary minorities have a decisive role to play in this coming to consciousness. (No mistakes: revolutionaries are catalyzers, not priests!)

This answer is in a great way based on "belly feelings". Critiques and completions are more than welcome.

Fred
internationalis, thank you so

internationalis, thank you so much for your considered reply (excellent from my point of view, because we appear to agree about so much!) and I'm all for belly feelings, though not all the time.

So, about discussion. You say "a long answer can be a sign of respect" but on the forum it can also be a bore. Not that yours is! Definitely not. You actually provide an answer yourself, when you say "unfortunately a minimum level of theorizing is necessary". I totally agree, and it's not "unfortunate": actually theory can be a great delight. But I think it belongs really in an article, not in a post on the forum. Not in laborious detail anyway. But others may think differently.

You say you are considering joining the ICC. I hope you do. And thank you again for talking to me, and everyone else.

Peter Pan
you're welcome

Well yes, long postages can sometimes be a bore for someone on a given time, but maybe not for another and maybe not on another time.

You're welcome!

If this isn't a short post... ;)