A Suggestion to the ICC

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mikail firtinaci
A Suggestion to the ICC
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A simple organisational suggestion; why does not the ICC consider organising open weekly meetings in every locality? These can be simply unstructured talks with people over a tea or a coffee that might be interested to meet with the organisation and its militants. Such meetings can give a chance to people to discuss their concerns in a free and non-rigid environment. These don't have to have an agenda and they can just be semi-informal talks. The places and times can be announced on the internet - at least for countries where this does not constitute a danger.

I think this will help the ICC to better understand the interests and questions of the people in the milleu. Further, such a structure can also help the militants of the ICC to overcome the often criticized rigidity in method of discussion. Theory and discussion - much valued by the ICC for all the right reasons- can not develop after all in a totally planned organized way. Theoretical debate has to have a certain level of spontaneity involved in it and it can only properly flourish in a humane and friendly setting. Developing contact and discussion primarily on a human level first will not only help overcome the feeling of isolation that many in the LC milleu feel but also liberate the ICC from its organisational isolation. The ICC may not have many collocutor in an organisational sense, but it may worth trying to see if that organisational loneliness is relevant at a more general social level.

just a simple suggestion to be considered by the comrades...

'Material' cannot be argued with

I've often wondered why all Communist groups which say that they want workers to be actively involved in their organisations, don't simply follow your entirely reasonable suggestion, mikail.

After personal experience of many of those groups, and in recent years discussions on the internet, I have come to the conclusion that the ideology of 'materialism' prevents them from doing so.

This 19th century ideology, learnt from Engels, insists that 'matter' is primary, and so can't be 'voted upon' by workers, but must be interpreted by a smaller group which has a 'special insight' into the 'material', which workers as a class do not have.

Thus, these 'materialists' cannot have their 'special insight' opposed by workers employing democratic methods, in 'open' meetings.

And that's the end of your hopeful suggestion, comrade.


I don't understand LBird's post at all. I could make up the same argument about various kinds of idealism, which have so often justified the idea of a secret inner sanctum which alone knows the Truth behind the veil of matter. 

In any case this has nothing to do with the lack of public meetings in most parts of the ICC in the recent period. In Britain, France and elsewhere we used to have both 'open' meetings without a particular theme as well as meetings around a definite topic on a much more regular basis. We have had to reduce these kinds of activities because of our internal difficulties and lack of resources, but in principle we have nothing against the kind of informal meeting Mikhail suggests. There has also been the problem that very often we put a lot of effort into organising such meetings and very few people came, which has also influenced our decision to severely reduce the number of public meetings we hold.

At the moment, weekly public meetings are well beyond our capacities, but we are certainly open to suggestions from anyone who wants to meet us, whether on a one to one or more collective basis. 

mikail firtinaci
Alf,I know that you are open


I know that you are open to people who contact you to meet with you. My suggestion was not a tactical one. It was not an implicit criticism either. It was just something like;  spend an hour of every week as "the local proletarian political milleu hour". That is all. If it is not possible, well that is fine. I just don't think this is unreasonable. I just thought it could help developing a more friendly political atmosphere.


I didn't at all take what you said as a criticism in any negative sense. I took it as a proposal for supporting our work. My only point is that any one who is engaged with supporting the ICC needs to be clear about the depth and extent of the crisis we have been going through.This is without doubt something we need to explain better, and we need to develop different vehicles for doing that.  

But is the crisis over Alf,

But is the crisis over Alf, that's the main thing?  And has the ICC survived more or less intact, if diminished  numerically? 

No, the crisis is not over.

No, the crisis is not over. It's always blah blah "France and Britain" and the rest of the Orientalist bullshit. The ICC is incapable of maintaining it's contacts, they've shown numerous times over the past 30 years these people are not priorities to them. Just ask jk1921 for example. He's been absolutely dedicated to this organization since the early 90's and you guys just treat him like total dog shit. There's also the simple notion that not too many people live past 85-90 years of age, so the vast majority of people in this organization will no longer exist in 15 years. And beyond that, "marxism", especially economically, is an incomplete mess and the ICC shows no willingness to be critical of it's methods in order to move forward. Communist theory does not deserve this treatment and neglect either. We are all grateful for the warm personal relationships we formed with some of the individuals in the ICC while they lasted. The comrades I knew were admirably committed to communism, when not focused on polemics. But unfairly those of us doomed to be on this horrid fucking rock for the next 50-60 years are tasked with trying to save a sinking ship, and you all just continue your delusions about the capacities and trajectory of your organization, and will clearly be engaged in pointless polemical battles until you move on from this life.

to jamal


Nobody oblige you to work with icc ,marxism is a method and collective work if you do not like it just leave it

mikail firtinaci
Jamal; reading your past, I

Jamal; reading your post, I spent a valuable 15 seconds of my life. Life is short and it is shorter for me now. you are not only wasting your life but also others...

I second and third that.

I second and third that.