hypocricy and class consciousness ?

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lem_
hypocricy and class consciousness ?
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sorry for such an abstract question, but do you think they're related at all :) !

jaycee
you might need to explain

you might need to explain your question a bit more Lem. It sounds like it could be an interesting discussion but what were you getting at exactly?

A.Simpleton
Am I right

in reading it as;

The bare faced cheek actions and attitudes of the bourgeoisie are ever more frequent more blatant, more arrogant,  'preach and moralise about something but do the opposite' 'get caught in lie after lie but just shrug it off' 'break the law but get out of it by retrospectively changing the law' Is this obvious hypocrisy of The State a factor with any effect on class consciousness?

 

jaycee
Bourgeois Democracy is the

Bourgeois Democracy is the clearest proof of the old maxim "the biggest trick the Devil ever played was convincing us he didn't exist". In the same way the bourgeoisie is the first ruling class in history to deny that it is a ruling class-this is a large part of why they are so hypocritical. Hypocricy is inbuilt into the 'democratic' ideology.

lem_
hm, thanks. i didn't just

hm, thanks. i didn't just mean bour. hypocricy but wondered if the working classs would be hypocrical in some more genuine or refined sense. perhaps not...

radicalchains
I find it interesting how a

I find it interesting how a lot of leftists take representatives of the ruling class at face value. For example if anyone's ever listened to the CPGB podcast they'll know what I'm talking about. But it's not restricted to leftist organisations. Zizek is another good example. There's an old saying, how do you know when a politician is lying? Their lips move. 

A.Simpleton
Aha

My intuition whispered that there was gist beyond the obvious. Is not hypocrisy practiced in general within the context of needing to present false appearance to gain something: status, applause, friendship, nooky even?

So conversely, if the contexts of moral, mental , physical judgement change utterly, then the idea of pretense and the need to pretend would surely change radically too? Instead of pretending to be what I'm not to gain acceptance from others who are pretending to be what they are not so that they can gain acceptance from the false me (pretending to be what I'm not) We could just be ourselves .... which, at first, might well be a frightening freedom.

When it sinks in that being, rejected, ignored, discarded, belittled, devalued etc. is the exception as opposed to the 'norm' and when it also sinks in that 'looking after number one' 'striving to beat the competition' et al brings no reward then ...well I can hardly imagine how much humanity could flow. To not have to mentally, physically, emotionally guard against an inhospitable world all the time....  

I've drifted a bit..

Fred
the inhospitable world

Isn't class consciousness the antidote to hypocrisy lem, in so far as it disposes of the taken-for-granted deceit - that  capitalism and exploitation  have naturally to be hidden and disguised as something palatable - on which hypocrisy feeds?  This renders hypocrisy an acceptable and  essential  part of "human nature" bourgeois style. 

And well said Jaycee about the devil's successful example of how to succeed at deceit - insist on its non-existence!  And if the bourgeoisie tell us often enough that we're all free then presumably, as prize suckers, we'll all fall for it 

And thanks for the reminder radicalchains that movement of a politician's lips indicate production of lies and probably an underhanded money transaction. This applies to the bourgeoisie in general. 

And finally A. Simpleton thank you for this. 

AS wrote:
 When it sinks in that being, rejected, ignored, discarded, belittled, devalued etc. is the exception as opposed to the 'norm' and when it also sinks in that 'looking after number one' 'striving to beat the competition' et al brings no reward then ...well I can hardly imagine how much humanity could flow. To not have to mentally, physically, emotionally guard against an inhospitable world all the time....  
 

And to think I thought I was the only one that felt like this! 

lem_
> Isn't class consciousness

> Isn't class consciousness the antidote to hypocrisy lem

Of course. It was a terribly utopian question, with Nietzschean undertones :/ Sorry !