Forum topic: The evolution of the situation in Spain since the June 19th demonstrations

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Forum topic: The evolution of the situation in Spain since the June 19th demonstrations
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The discussion that follows was prompted by the article: The evolution of the situation in Spain since the June 19th demonstrations. The discussion was initiated by kinglear.
Below is the discussion so far. Feel free to add your own comments!

This article vibrates with

This article vibrates with proletarian life, and possibilities for the future. It's the latter we need to think about. Mention is made in the article of a "widespread minority in the assemblies which is distinguished by it's defense of class positions" and goes on to say that, as the assemblies break up, this minority "cannot allow itself to become dispersed" (is anyone going to stop it?), but should "coordinate itself nationally and if possible establish international contacts." I assume 'international contacts' could include the ICC, or ICT, who else is there? But why does the newly emerged minority have to contact the ICC, why doesn't the ICC contact them? (If you are already doing that,then please excuse my ignorance. But as far as I can tell you don't sound like you are.) This raises a bigger question of how an organization like the ICC relates to the rest of the class. After 35 years of existence, the ICC is a mature organization with exceptionally developed, clear and coherent,class positions. I suggest that it is sometimes extremely difficult for an emerging militant, especially if young, to understand that they can make contact with the mature organization. An example would be on where the clarity and coherence of the ICC is often mistaken for dogmatism or worse. I also suggest it would be a brave young proletarian militant who dared to start asking fundamental questions on this website. Not that you would treat such a person badly, on the contrary, it's just that they wouldn't dare. So how is the ICC to grow - and how is the party ever to emerge - when there seems such a gap between those, the young, who are developing their class consciousness, the minority groups, and those in the revolutionary organization who already have a lot? (A paragraph would be nice here, but I don't know how to do it!) The ICC quite rightly doesn't actively recruit members. But the newly emerging young proletarians, on whom the future revolution will largely depend, need the nourishment that you are best placed to provide, if they are to grow. You don't have so many members that you are able to intervene and discuss wherever this is actually needed. There aren't enough comrades to go round. So it seems like there is a sort of impasse, just when there are signs that class struggle may be on the rise. You will not be surprised to hear that I have no solutions, and you the ICC appear sometimes to be losing rather than gaining members. So what can we do? Your article ends with the hope: the future is in our hands. But this is a warning too. Yes, the future is in our hands. We must take care it doesn't slip through our fingers again.

excellent point


You cut straight to the heart of the central challenge facing the ICC and othe revolutionary organisations today. I cannot go into a detailed reply at the moment but we are aware that the future is in our hands and there is a danger of it slipping through our fingers. However, we are making a determined effort to try and open up the most effective links between the organisation and the emerging generations of new militants. For example, in Spain, our comrades there have been actively working with various organisations, collectives and assemblies that have been developing in that country over the last few years and in the present movement. Nevertheless, there is a real question about the fact that we are a mature organisation as you say and the fact that it can be difficult for younger comrades or newly politized people to feel at easy approach such an organisation: this is clearly something we need to think about and work on overcoming. There is also the question of the use of the new media. Younger people are much more at easy and savvy when it comes to using these means of communication than older militants are, which can mean that we do not appear to be responsive enough to them at times.

As you say this is a serious challenge facing the Communist Left, but it is better to have this challenge than no challenge at all. We can only ask that those interested in bridging this 'gap' work with us in order to do this: we have a lot to learn about what we need to do and who others see this chellenge.

It is a relief to know that others see this challenge because we have been thinking about and discussing this for some time, but obviously from the perspective of the organisation, so it is very welcome to learn how it is seen by those trying to relate to us.

Thank you Ernie for your

Thank you Ernie for your response. I'm glad to hear the ICC is thinking about this. I worry about our younger proletarians and how they are to be nourished. There seem to be at least two identifiable kinds. There are the minorities in the Assemblies who already defend class positions, and people like the Labour Commission in Rome - more advanced militants - and then there are the beginners, radical minorities searching for answers, such as those mentioned three months ago, on this site, in an article called "New forums for proletarian discussion". I sometimes wonder what happened to these people. Have they disappeared? Are you still in touch? It would be nice if you could keep us all more closely informed (not in enormous time-consuming detail) of how you are progressing with those minorities of the class, not already inside Fortress Left Com, but looking at it in awe.

We are perhaps emerging from 40 years of stalemate between the classes, during which time the crisis has been cleverly staged by the bourgeoisie but decomposition has set in. Now it is apparent that capitalism is very sick and we the workers are being asked to make sacrifices to restore it's health. However, all over the world, resisting the siren calls of the bourgeoisie, we are getting off our knees and starting to fight back. Just a little at first. Could it be that we are at last at the dawning of the years of truth? If this is the case, then the revolutionary left needs to get it's act together smartly, and I hope you are going to keep us all in close touch with how it's going. A final point. I for one am not trying to relate to the ICC, as is suggested above, I DO relate to the ICC and long for it's wider influence within the class. All power to the Assemblies.

young generation of proletarians

I agree that we are seeing important developments in the working class as Kinglear points out. In relation to the people we have met at various meetings around the anti-cuts demonstrations and strikes - yes we still meet some of these people at these sort of meetings. We see it as positive that there are people asking very basic questions about the nature of the crisis - and decadence - and what it means to struggle in these circumstances, and not just following leftist or union ideology. It is also positive that we see people coming together because they can see that a union one day strike does not answer the needs of the struggle. They really are a promise of the future. We participate in these discussions where we can. These discussions reflect the very real difficulties the working class faces in developing its struggles in the face of the crisis today, and particularly the development, in the capitalist heartlands, of the sort of large scale strikes that we saw in the 1970s and 80s and more recently in China, Bangladesh, Egypt...

Kinglear, you are quite right that you do relate to the ICC. Your posts on this site are an important contribution to its work, whether participating in a general discussion or raising criticisms or concerns about our work. We welcome whatever contributions comrades can make according to their circumstances, which can include participation in discussion on this or other forums, any information about the situation of the class struggle -or other aspects of the situation- where you live sent as a contribution on the web forum, email or article. Do you have any opportunities for discussion, with young proletarians or others, where you live?

 This is an interesting

 This is an interesting article concerning the meeting in Feb 11 of various groups, collectives and those who had participated in the French assemblies. This meeting took place before the events of M15 and show that this movement did not spring from thin air. We have been involved with the assembly of militant workers in Alicante for several years now. For example, we, along with workers from the assembly and  the Spartacus collective intervene together in Alicante during the 29th September to distribute a joint leaflet, along with a leaflet calling on workers to come to the next meeting of the assembly, to the demonstration that took place in that city. It was an extremely fraternal and warm common work.

This common work is not aimed at recurity but at builing strong links between the various groups, collective, assemblies and individuals defending the need for proletarian autonomy and internationalism in order to make the most effective intervention possible. The priority at the moment is to the unity of this "milieu" faced with the massive challenges facing the working class. In the short term we do not expect this to lead to a growth in those who want to combin this activity with being militants of specfic organisations. In the longer-term though such common work and the discussion that it is based on will enable a better understanding of  what militant political activity is and is not, which will enable comrades to make a better conscious decision about whether to become militants of an organisation or not.

Obviously this is only one aspect of the challenge facing revolutionary organisations today, but the ability to develop a consistent work of common activity will help to strengthen the unity of those defending class autonomy and internationalism: a sense of unity that will be important to those seeking a revolutionary alternative to capitalism. This does not mean hidding the differences between organisations and others under the carpet but rather their clarification and confrontation in an atmosphere of a common purpose aimed at the most effective political strengthening of the working class possible.