French elections: the leaders change, but austerity and exploitation remain

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French elections: the leaders change, but austerity and exploitation remain
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The discussion that follows was prompted by the article: French elections: the leaders change, but austerity and exploitation remain. The discussion was initiated by jk1921.
Below is the discussion so far. Feel free to add your own comments!


I am a little confused after reading this article. Was Sarkozy booted out because of a "real campaign" where Hollande convinced the electorate he was a better choice or was this an orchestrated maneover by the French bourgeoisie to get rid of a clumsy ruling team that was an embarrasment and had lost public confidence? What were the preferences of the main factions of the French bourgeoisie? Were they able to accomplish them? Will this change in the ruling team give the French state some breathing space or not? There seems to be a few things missing here. Is there a more substantial analysis coming?

As ever jk you ask questions

As ever jk you ask questions to which no one seems to reply even though at the head of this article it says "discuss". But there's never much discussion. The ICC discusses amongst itself on the forum, but rarely ventures outside it's own circle. Oh yes, I know MH talked with you about tbe article about the British State, but that was unusual. And Alf has promised to respond to radicalchains about the Pankhurst film. But you haven't even got an acknowledgement slip so to speak. Will Pawel respond to your criticisms, if only to reject them or to confirm that no more analysis is on offer?

How do we get discussion on the forum if the ICC remains aloof from it, and especially aloof to outsiders? Discussion requires responses in order to work. The ICC may have reasons for being aloof. Maybe there's not many of them, and they're very busy. Maybe they don't think it's worth while bothering about certain things, having more important matters to deal with, like incorporating new sections, and trying to sort out matters with, for example, Internationalist Voice and Klasbatalo. Not that much positive seems to be happening there! I wish I knew the answers to some of these questions that hang in the air, and I wish I knew why the ICC appears to think it has to maintain a sort of air of mystery and remoteness, which is how it strikes me. And please don't just dismiss me by telling me I'm wrong, or am being negative, and haven't framed a proper question. I am not concerned about myself but about other and younger people who visit the forum and might wonder what goes on here, and why - given that the ICC is a proletarian and not an elitist organisation - posters and their questions (and organizations from the proletarian milieu as well) - seem to get ignored or brushed off. Is the ICC not still a Pole of Regroupment?

But back to this article about the French elections. I think it's all right. It's a kind of journalistic article from a proletarian perspective, and was never intended to be some deep psychological probe into the bourgeoisie's mind-set. Doesn't Pawel agree? I like this bit. " Capitalism, this inhuman, mortally ill system, has to be replaced by a world without classes, exploitation, profit and competition. Such a world can only be built by the masses, the masses of employees, unemployed, retired, young people in part time work, united in the struggle. If votes are to be used to really change things, it will be the votes organised by us, the exploited – the votes taken in general assemblies where we decide together, collectively, how we should struggle against the state and its representatives." 

The reason I like it is because it tells us again (we need to be told continually so that everyone gets it) it tells us that there is an alternative to bourgeois elections, and what that alternative is, and how we' ll use it to decide things together. In Solidarity. With no remoteness, elitist behavior, or stand-offishness. Because I don't really give a shit whether the French state gets a breathing space or not. Just get rid of it.

That's OK Fred, I don't

That's OK Fred, I don't expect a direct response from the ICC to every post I make. They don't have the forces for that. What would be better is if some more voices from outside the ICC would join the discussion on these substantive matters a little more. What does IV think about this article? Klasbatolo, etc.?

Sorry for my bad english

I'm sorry but I don't speak english. For write here, my friend "google traduction" helps me. Thanks google.


The goal of this article (who is the editorial of paper french "Révolution Internationale") is to show that it's necessary to look the world and not only the France.


During the election, politicians and journalists have spoken of France and... of France and... still of France. The article said that the capitalism is a world systeme, the crisis is world also. It don't exist a national solution, nor a bourgeois solution.


The article said also that everywhere, the opposition wins because the gouvernement fraction is discredited, in every countries (or almost). It's not a calculation. But I am not able to explain it in english (perhaps, no more in french...). I recommend reading the second half this article : ( The title is : The economic crisis is not a never-ending story)


And to end,I'm sorry if we don't answer always but we really have little strength and we are doing our best.

Briefly in reply to Fred,

Briefly in reply to Fred, maybe it surprises you that peoples lives don't revolve around the ICC forum? I have found organisation forums don't generally do that much discussion and in the main are the focus of already existing members and questions which relate to the organisation as it exists. Perhaps there are some exceptions, does anybody know of any? For more broad discussions, 'users' and frequency of posts you might try revleft or libcom or even Facebook? Sadly, that's just the way it seems to be. I have encouraged people to use this forum in the past but it seems to fall on deaf ears. Which is a real shame because I think like yourself the ICC have a lot to offer especially to the younger generation as already shown through their press.

I take your point

I take your point radicalchains that people's lives don't revolve round the ICC forum. But mine sort of does nowadays. Generally speaking I suppose organizational forums consist of members talking to each other. But shouldn't the ICC forum be different? You think so, jk thinks so and me too. Like you and jk I want more people to come on here and speak. For that to happen tbe ICC will also have to come on here more often and talk to the "outsiders" not just generally and more enthusiastically to each other.

And this is what Pawel has just done. Thanks to Pawel, and for his courage in taking on English. But I have to tell you comrade, that excellent though your article is, the point you say it makes about getting away from focussing on France and rather instead focussing on the world, completely escaped me! C'est ma faute sans doute! But as camarade has said the main point is about the class positions being there; and the idea that we need to get rid of the total class of the bourgeoisie and their rubbishy class rule - governments, oppositions, leftists, "socialists", parliamentary sham democracies, and phony election clap-trap too. To the dust-bin with them all. (Now how d'you say that in French...?)

fanx or is it mercy?

fanx or is it mercy?