Immigration: xenophobia right and left

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jk1921
Immigration: xenophobia right and left
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The discussion that follows was prompted by the article: Immigration: xenophobia right and left. The discussion was initiated by jk1921.
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jk1921
A timely piece that fits in

A timely piece that fits in some ways with the discusion on the "Labour Aristocracy" thread. On the Mayor of London's comments: Interesting sentiment from a man with his own nationality issues (Hey Boris, any luck getting rid of that U.S. passport yet?), but I am not sure he is entirely wrong. As I alluded to in the other thread, a major theme of the "culture wars" is that the white working class has become a hopelessly reactionary social force--the real enemies of progress, due to their inherent racism and anti-immigrant sentiment that motivates significant portions of them to support the Tea Party, UKIP, Vlaamse Volks Partij, Front Nationale, etc.

But, I can't imagine that denouncing them as irredeemably racist is going to help them develop the critical consciousness necessary for any revolution to occur. That is not a call to ignore racism and anti-immigrant sentiment in the working class, but to try to understand where it comes from and to determine if it is possible to redirect this anger towards more rational and productive expressions. Is there any genuine material interest at stake or is it a pure psychological pathology whipped up by the bourgeoisie? I am not sure the answer is so clear cut......

lem_
defiine "genuine material

defiine "genuine material interest"... IMO they will like anyone vote and support the parties that APPEAR to offer them political solace etc.

on the flip side, IMHO you don't need the same sort of material interest to be a communist. not to sound like a hippy, but yeah, i think people are getting more immiserated despite an apparent increase in living standards. they're only "things2.

almost everyone here is white. i don't think that makes them racist, but it's easier to be an ignorant white working class person, perhaps.

 

edit oh unless you are asking whether racist reactionary people are all racist and reactionary? well they are, but people change, we hope right?

jk1921
Well, that is the crux of it....

lem_ wrote:

defiine "genuine material interest"... IMO they will like anyone vote and support the parties that APPEAR to offer them political solace etc.

 

Well, that is exactly the crux of it. What is a genuine material interst and what isn't? it isn't at all clear to me at all anymore. The idea of there being a "labour aristocracy" rests on the notion that some sector of working class people have real material interests or privlieges within capitalism that cause them to become conservative or reactionary--not due to ideological manipulation, but because those politics express something rational about their position in capitalism--even if it is limited by some temporal horizon.

Hawkeye
Immigration article of 6-12-2014

By 1848 no land was under the control of the working class, but Karl Marx (1818-1883) was wrong in saying that workers have no country.  A country is the one thing that we do have, leaving aside the property question.  Humans as animals need terrain, local to themselves, to survive.  You can't vote with your feet except by boots on the ground, there is no global etherial internationalist cloud on which to place them !  Marx with his supporter Engels (1820-1895) and Darwin (1809-1883) lived at a time when classification was all the rage, from which assertions were made as to which classification was essentially fundamental for human life, and those tended to disregard other very relevant factors in the many and varied areas of the planet.  Car mentioned xenophobia which, of course, is prone to occur where an assortment of people of various origins is present.  He did not mention xenophilia, in which some people, especially leftists, get tremendously focused on situations of people in 'far away places with strange sounding names' rather than on those of people nearby. Even there, most people lock their doors at night.  Do you ?  If so, why ?

Hawkeye
Immigration - Apologies re Dec 18

Since Dec 18, 2014, I now regret and apologise for my comment.  My outlook now is that the world is going to become increasingly multiethnic and multicultural, and any reactionary attempts, like King Canute, to hold back the waves, are futile, as well as reactionary.  Recently on a BBC broadcast a politician said that we don't want a better yesterday, but a better tomorrow.  I reckon we're likely to get a 'tomorrow' anyway, and need to get used to the prospect, whatever it brings, whilst seeking to influence it to the advantage of the working class. I have taken a renewed interest in what the Socialist Equality Party (UK) has to say, after a gap of many years, so cannot say that ICC persuades me now. Even so, I am grateful to the ICC for having been permitted to engage in comments.

 

lem_
ok, weird.  good fortune

ok, weird.  good fortune hawkeye !