Make use of online media

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hmmm
Make use of online media
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One thing I think is lacking is the presence of left communists in online media. I believe that currently, making use of online media, like video, audio etc, is as important as relying on written articles, which are excellent in themselves. Any thoughts?

devoration1
Loren Goldner just posted a

Loren Goldner just posted a video of a talk he gave. Maybe a good start would be filming the public interventions/meetings?

jk1921
There are always security

There are always security concerns to think about. One thing that could be considerded is conducting some public meetings via webinair with a PowerPoint presentation that could be accessed online later.

Beltov
There's plenty of things we'd

There's plenty of things we'd love to do, but at the end of the day it's all time consuming, and there are so few of us. What we need is for more sympathisers coming forward to volunteer their time and resources (and more sympathisers asking to join the ICC!) so we can work collectively to put these ideas into practice. To paraphrase Kennedy, "Ask what you can do for your class"!

RobertZimbardo
The lack of a YouTube

The lack of a YouTube presence is a tad dissapointing to me. I think it would be a great way for us (I say "us" as a sympathizer) to communicate our ideas. That guy brendanmcooney has been doing good work in that regard.

Devrim
New Media

Beltov wrote:
There's plenty of things we'd love to do, but at the end of the day it's all time consuming, and there are so few of us. What we need is for more sympathisers coming forward to volunteer their time and resources (and more sympathisers asking to join the ICC!) so we can work collectively to put these ideas into practice. To paraphrase Kennedy, "Ask what you can do for your class"!

There are a lot of things that we would like to do, and a new approach to on line media is part of that. As Beltov points out the lots of ICC members are overworked, and we do do an impresive amount of work for such a tiny organisation. I feel that there are two things we can do to begin to tackle these problems. The first is as Beltov points out above that we have to encourage the sympathisers to get involved more in our work. RobertZimbardotalks about 'us' communicating our ideas. Why not get in touch and we will talk about what we together can do about it?

There are lots of things that the ICC as an organisation needs to do, and every little helps. Recently one contact who post on here, 'Zanthorus' wrote an article for us for the first time. It was on a subject that we were discussing writing about, and when he offered not only did we get what is in my opinion a very good article on the CPGB's view of the left-wing of the British communist party, but also it reduced the workload on our members alowing people to do something else.

The second point is that the ICC as an organisation has to look at what its priorities are. maybe some of the stuff we are doing now is not as effective as some stuff we could be doing, so we must be prepared to review how we are allocating our resources.

RobertZimbardo wrote:
The lack of a YouTube presence is a tad dissapointing to me. I think it would be a great way for us (I say "us" as a sympathizer) to communicate our ideas. That guy brendanmcooney has been doing good work in that regard.

I know nothing about YouTube Robert. It was banned in our country until last week, and will quite probably be banned again in the near future. How do you think we could use it? What sort of stuff would you suggest putting up?

devoration1 wrote:
Loren Goldner just posted a video of a talk he gave. Maybe a good start would be filming the public interventions/meetings?

I think really we need to discuss the whole 'new media' thing. In general people have this image of people involved in new technologies as these young computer wizzkids. Unfortunatley it isn't quite like that in the ICC. For example I manage the Turkish website. I am the oldest member of the section, and have never even used Facebook. None of the young people in their twenties in the Turkish section know how to put up an article on the site even. The people who run the site as a whole are older than me. I think it would be good if people who know about these sort of things, like YouTube, and facebook talk about how we can use them. What sort of stuff do we want to put up their, for example? Is podcasting a way to go? I know about podcasts because I listen to them on my way to work. To me it seems that it would be an easier way to start than video as it is only sound. What else should we be thinking about?

Devrim

 

 

 

 

 

devoration1
Podcasting sounds like a

Podcasting sounds like a great idea. Have something like a 30-90 minute 'talk show' or roundtable discussion about a particular topic, archive them and make them available online. A number of political groups on the left and right (and extreme left and extreme right) do this successfully.

Sheldon
I echo the need for

I echo the need for utilization of some forms of online media.  Of course, as JK correctly brings up, certain basic security precautions should be kept in mind.

 

Podcasts are a good idea.

Devrim
podcasts

Sheldon wrote:
Podcasts are a good idea.

I have just looked up communism on itunes and the selection is pretty poor. How do you get on itunes? I presume there is some sort of selection process and you can't just post it there yourself.

I listened to a bit of one leftist one, and it was just a guy reading the paper. It didn't really work that well. I think that you have to develop a format specific to it, maybe a few people doing discussions with interviews etc.

Devrim

 

 

 

Sheldon
Based on...

Devrim wrote:

I have just looked up communism on itunes and the selection is pretty poor. How do you get on itunes? I presume there is some sort of selection process and you can't just post it there yourself.

I listened to a bit of one leftist one, and it was just a guy reading the paper. It didn't really work that well. I think that you have to develop a format specific to it, maybe a few people doing discussions with interviews etc.

Devrim

Based on my experience following the west coast ICC forums, there was a lot of interest in getting an audio copy of the forums--from comrades near and far.  I think there is an interest to have a multimedia platform; but you are right that it would have to be done well.  Simply reading the Decadence of Capitalism probably wouldn't be the best use of the platform

hmmm
Examples

A couple of examples I can think of is this video from SPGB: http://www.worldsocialism.org/video/

They also have some videos on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=BF1E5F3EEA60BAE4

Red Hughs
A colorful mask can add both

A colorful mask can add both security and make the discussion seem exciting!

I was appeared on an "anarchist" TV show with a mask years ago. Livens everything up.

 

radicalchains
"New Media"

Hello all,

Funnily enough I was thinking the other day why doesn't either Libcom or the ICC have a You Tube channel. Although the former does it seems to make no use of it and perhaps the format is of more use to the ICC. brendanmccooney's channel is a good example - he has made countless videos on Marx's Capital which seem to get quite a lot of views and subscriptions etc. The ICC could make videos about their theory and politics in a similar fashion, their positions on current events or history of the workers' movement. In the past I have come across a Trotskyist channel with talks on the Paris Commune with their line and theory on it (audio with pictures instead of video), SPGB lectures and talks and various Stalinist utterly pointless party meetings CPB etc. The CPGB do podcasts which are accessible via their website, basically commenting on news events mainly focused on Britain with their communist world view stamped on them. Which is worth a listen for what its worth and for the format, style etc - They have recently replied to the ICC's article about them via podcast. - The CPGB also have a video channel on Vimeo (which allows longer videos. You Tube only allows ten minutes per video unless you have lots of viewers, I think) of their communist university and various videos on Google Video. Another good example would be adycousins' channel on You Tube wich has many viewers and subscribers formerley of SWP now of Counterfire which is mainly based upon activism and speeches.

As some have already said in the end it comes down to what you want to get out of posting video or audio. I would have thought it would be a good suggestion for ICC sympathizers to make a channel as it would take some time to build the channel's viewers and subscribers - you can't just upload videos and hope people will stumble across them. - Perhaps a comradely message for advice to brendanmccooney or adycousins could help in this respect. If you're worried about security I would suggest what others have done, just use pictures and audio in your videos. Perhaps for public meetings would be a great start. Or have podcasts linked to your website instead.

edit: Just a couple of things I thought worth mentioning:

The RMT has a You Tube channel and recently there was a channel set up for the London Fire Brigade strike - either by the union itself or workers' themselves - anyway, the main point being it was a class perspective instead of relying on bourgeois media, BBC etc - which I think far too many groups and individuals do. But that's another question entirely. How useful is the bourgeois news media. Can it be informative or useful despite its bias, distortions, lies and ideology etc?

Devrim
Link

radicalchains wrote:
They have recently replied to the ICC's article about them via podcast.

Here is the link:
http://cpgb.podbean.com/2010/11/08/left-communism/

Devrim

hmmm
How to make a podcast

In case anyone is interested, here is a link on how to make a podcast: http://radio.about.com/od/createyourownpodcast/ss/How-to-Create-Your-Own...

LoneLondoner
Some reflections on new media

Very briefly, in principle it's a great idea, however there are some practical issues to think about. Basic ones in no particular order:

1) Discretion - you would have to think about how willing you (or comrades) are to have your face or even voice distributed all over the Internet. I think it could be very good to have public meetings broadcast, but in all fairness you would have to ask people at the meeting if they were prepared to be broadcast and not everybody would be necessarily.

2) Not be boring! I've not tried it yet but I can imagine that no matter how fascinating a meeting might be to attend, it might not be so interesting to listen to raw...

3) ...which brings me on to the fact you would probably have to edit the podcast, and that requires some degree of technical skill and above all time which we have too little of.

4) All this applies in multiples of 10 to visuals!

5) Where would one host the casts? We could put them on vimeo of course, but if anyone knows an audio hoster I would be interested.

None of the above are showstoppers, but they do need to be thought about and I for one would welcome suggestions.

Devrim
To comment on some of the

To comment on some of the questions raised.

1) I don't think that it is a good idea to do video of public meetings. I would concentrate on doing things especially designed for podcast. On the other hand there do seem to be a few requests for tapes of meetings.

As for people' voices and faces, I wouldn't really bother about my voive, but would be reluctant to have my face up there. However, I think that the main threat from being more from employers than the state. The ICC has some retired people. Why not give them a shot at it if you can find one who is prepared to do it.

2) Yes, this is important. If you listen to the CPGB ones, they are just one guy talking. It is not what you would want to aim for, but might be a good place to start.

3) The technical skill is important. However, the CPGB just had one guy talking, which requires very little technical skill at all.

On the subject of time, I think that we need to prioritise. I don't think that some of the things that we are doing at the moment are that effective. Maybe it is time to rethink them, and reallocate resources.

4) You have to start with sound.

5) http://www.podbean.com/

Devrim

 

RobertZimbardo
I think having a podcast

I think having a podcast would be a great idea. As it has already been pointed out, there aren't many leftist podcasts that are produced, and those that are are of poor quality. It would be a good way to expand our ideas, and it will also set us apart from other leftist organizations.

To Devrim, the idea I had for YouTube is essentially recording someone speaking and having a slide show over the audio of relevent images or videos. Basically like a podcast, but I think that would reach a larg audience. 

Devrim
Podcasts

RobertZimbardo wrote:
To Devrim, the idea I had for YouTube is essentially recording someone speaking and having a slide show over the audio of relevent images or videos. Basically like a podcast, but I think that would reach a larg audience. 

I think in the long term we have to think about it. Now though I think that it would be 'running before walking' and we should concentrate on the audio side, which we are currently discussing.

Devrim

 

d-man
video of talk

devoration1 wrote:

Loren Goldner just posted a video of a talk he gave. Maybe a good start would be filming the public interventions/meetings?

Here is the link to that excellent talk: vimeo.com/16363567

 

Crisanto
Videotalk

d-man wrote:

devoration1 wrote:

Loren Goldner just posted a video of a talk he gave. Maybe a good start would be filming the public interventions/meetings?

Here is the link to that excellent talk: vimeo.com/16363567

I watched the Loren Goldner video talk. It's nice. Having video of our public meetings is a good start. However, participants and the speakers should discuss if its OK with them that they will be seen in video for security consideration. If security is at risk, then podcast is better.

Whatever the methods, the important thing is we should discuss the merits and demerits of them. For me, there are more positive thing of this than negative and we can find ways to control or diminish the negative effects.

One more thing. I agree that we need "volunteers" on this. People who have skills in video or podcasting and how they will be posted in youtube, etc and most importantly in our site.

 

LoneLondoner
Another thought on media

Discretion is a major issue. I recently took part in a sort of "round table" discussion with members of another group which was absolutely excellent, exemplary in the mutual respect shown and the discipline of those speaking (in terms of not interrupting and thinking and speaking carefully to the arguments put forward). It would have been perfect for a podcast. Yet for various reasons it would have been impossible for the people involved to have had it broadcast in public.

Another thought that came to mind, is that if there are things already out there which people find enlightening, we could incorporate them into this site, preferably with some critical introductory comments (written) to go with the talk. And by the way, when I say critical I don't necessarily mean "against"). I don't know whether this resonates with anyone.

Crisanto
How about General Assemblies video?

LoneLondoner wrote:
Another thought that came to mind, is that if there are things already out there which people find enlightening, we could incorporate them into this site, preferably with some critical introductory comments (written) to go with the talk. And by the way, when I say critical I don't necessarily mean "against"). I don't know whether this resonates with anyone.

I think there are many videos of the massive strikes and assemblies in France and UK. Maybe we can start there with voice narrative of what is going on.

Devrim
 I think that the discussion

 I think that the discussion here is important, and very useful. It is important for us to hear what people outside the organisation on what they think of this, and to listen to their suggestions.

However, I think that we shouldn't rush into doing it just now, but wait until the ICC Congress. There we can try to get some of the people with the necessary technical knowledge along with others, bring some of the ideas together and come up with a plan.

Devrim

radicalchains
video/audio

I mentioned various things earlier in this thread. Personally, I think there is a bigger and bigger number of proletarians looking for answers or a deeper understanding of the world around them. From a media perspective this can be seen on a site like You Tube where although the ICC may disagree with the politics and conclusions of some 'political' documentaries, films, discussions and talks they are getting thousands of views and encouraging people to question on a fundamental level or broaden horizons generally in an international perspective. Someone like Noam Chomsky has clearly become rather popular. I would recommend You Tube simply because the numbers it reaches. Personally I find videos and audio very useful of debates, talks and regarding history. As I am in a slightly remote area but the material is useful of itself. Like the audio which was posted on Libcom.org recently about communist organisation. But as useful or interesting as these videos/audio are it will always come back to what the pupose is for the ICC - I suppose to what end? How long will it be before we have a 24hr internationalist class struggle television channel? And lastly, I think you should make full use of the internet and all media. I don't think I would have come to Marxism without the internet. I certainly wouldn't have heard of the ICC.

radicalchains
This is probably beyond the

This is probably beyond the scope of the ICC but what about internet radio? There must be enough out of work, retired communists around the globe for an internet radio station based on internationalist class struggle. Of course recorded programmes could be used along with live ones and potentially featuring organisations and comrades from all aorund the world. The technology is there. Maybe some similar internet radio stations already exist but I haven't come across any. Just a thought.

Cheers.

Devrim
Radio ICC?

radicalchains wrote:
This is probably beyond the scope of the ICC but what about internet radio? 

I don't think that this is at all beyond the scope of the ICC. Although we can't do it immediately, we have to be looking at it as a serious option in the near to medium future. Not just internet radio either, but satellite radio.

The various 'worker communist' parties in Iran all have not only satellite radio, but also TV. It would take an immense organisational effort, and quite possibly would be best done in collaberation with others, though whether there is the political will to do that both within the ICC and outside is another question.

In countries such as the Phillipines, where we already have a section, and it is difficult to say the least to distribute a paper, it could be a solution.

 

Devrim

 

petey
satellite radio

i think it's a great idea. questions: how much does it cost to rent time on the satellie? how much does it cost to rent time in a studio? if the ICC could pay, would there still be censorship concerns (in the states e.g.)?

radicalchains
Encouraging

Devrim wrote:

radicalchains wrote:
This is probably beyond the scope of the ICC but what about internet radio? 

I don't think that this is at all beyond the scope of the ICC. Although we can't do it immediately, we have to be looking at it as a serious option in the near to medium future. Not just internet radio either, but satellite radio.

The various 'worker communist' parties in Iran all have not only satellite radio, but also TV. It would take an immense organisational effort, and quite possibly would be best done in collaberation with others, though whether there is the political will to do that both within the ICC and outside is another question.

In countries such as the Phillipines, where we already have a section, and it is difficult to say the least to distribute a paper, it could be a solution.

 

Devrim

 

 

That's encouraging to hear Devrim, are any of those you mention in English? If so could you prove some links or the names of the websites etc if you know them.

Devrim
Worker communist TV

radicalchains wrote:
That's encouraging to hear Devrim, are any of those you mention in English? If so could you prove some links or the names of the websites etc if you know them.

They do have some stuff in English. I doubt you would pick up their satallite transmission unless you live in the middle East.

Their website has some of the programmes on in English and is here: 

http://www.newchannel.tv/englishTV/

 Devrim

.

Peter Pan
public meeting in france was podcasted

I've quickly read the discussion above. Interesting things have been said. I'm an ICC- sympathizer and think that the podcasting, youtube videos, satellite radio and (why not?) facebook-pages and myspace-pages are a good idea.

We shouldn't however overestimate the influence of it and keep in mind that the internet is not a stable medium (ok, no medium is): sites can be blocked, the internet can be shut down (e.g. at war situations, I heard that Russia closed down the internet in Georgia at a certain moment, don't know if it's thrue, but it's sound plausible to me; look at China that censures many sites).

In a video or sound fragment, many things can be said in a very short time, while texts and books are sometimes diffult to get and demand time. It would also be interesting to reach analphabetic people (e.g. in many peripheric countries). Devrim is also right when he says that it could be usefull for countries as the Phillipines, where a paper for practical and security reasons is impossible. Also, podcasts and videos can be long or short. Don't see why reading an article aloud (but lively) can't be an option.

Reading and attending meetings is sometimes a big step for people, so these media can be like a stair. Reading and 'live' discussions are however still necessary! Especially 'live' meetings are the best way to create a real human connection and to develop discussions. I'm in a discussion group myself and I must say that the most difficult, but most interesting and important things that I learn are: listening to others and understanding  their questions, concerns, viewpoints... & explain and develop myself in a clear way what I think and defend.

One of the negative sides of Youtube is the lack of structure. You jump from one video to another. So, indeed, a kind of site or other platform can be usefull to structure all the videos and podcasts by theme, groups, organisations...

There has allready been a podcast of a public meeting in France by ICC and CNT-AIT (Toulouse):

part 1: http://anarsonore.free.fr/spip.php?article482

part 2: http://anarsonore.free.fr/spip.php?article483

part 3: http://anarsonore.free.fr/spip.php?article484

 

radicalchains
exile mentality?

Devrim wrote:

radicalchains wrote:
That's encouraging to hear Devrim, are any of those you mention in English? If so could you prove some links or the names of the websites etc if you know them.

They do have some stuff in English. I doubt you would pick up their satallite transmission unless you live in the middle East.

Their website has some of the programmes on in English and is here: 

http://www.newchannel.tv/englishTV/

 Devrim

.

 

Funnily enough I actually came across that Party before and their channel though I think it may be 'down' at the moment? They used to upload some videos to You Tube now and then. They seem to spend a lot of time protesting at the Iranian embassy (diplomatic mission), not sure how far that gets anyone. Would they be an example of 'exile mentality' I've read from time to time by various ICC militants and others? (sorry for derailing!)

webmaster
We dipped a toe in the water!

Well, a lot of comrades were asking for us to start experimenting with new media - and we're pretty keen on the idea. The only problem is that there's a steep learning curve, and then you have to be able to publish something interesting (just as with articles of course).

Anyway we finally decided to dip our toes in the water, especially since (as some comrades have pointed out in this thread), voice recordings in various languages are already popping up here and there on the Net.

So here is the first part of a discussion with Chris Knight, of the Radical Anthropology group, recorded during the ICC's 19th Congress. Enjoy!

Pierre
audio transcripts

Wudup cdes

Ive been studying audio engineering for a minute now. I really know my way around anything audio.

I'd like to begin converting many of the english articles to audio transcripts. I'd like to do maybe 3-5 at a time every so often, so if we can somehow priortize it that would be great.

At Leos advice I've also been writing a lot lately, too but thats a seperate story ;)

Also, I sent the US section a pretty urgent question, unrelated to this so heads up

- Jamal

radicalchains
Excellent

webmaster wrote:

 a discussion with Chris Knight, of the Radical Anthropology group, recorded during the ICC's 19th Congress. Enjoy!

 

That's a great example of what can be done! However, if you want to get to a wider audience you will have to  place media on websites other than your own e.g You Tube. Looking forward to the next podcast.

radicalchains
Radio

First radio programme due to take place 21/1/12 apparently offerring a working class communist perspective from USA. Thought it was worth highlighting.

http://www.martinsayles.com/

Crisanto
First radio programme

 I first read this in Facebook. Hope it's worth listening to. :D 

Alf
Workers Party USA

 The Workers' party USA are indeed a rather singular bunch - they recently claimed to be moving towards 'Miasnikovism' and thus towards the communist left, but their politics remind me more of the Hekmatists of Iran (Communist Party of Iran, Communist Workers Party of Iran etc), especially with their list of 'bourgeois democratic' demands as steps towards a proletarian (?) revolution, which SchalkenDN points out. Still, it may well be that they will attract people who really are moving towards the communist left so we should be aware of these developments and discuss with people in or around the group where possible.  

Crisanto
De Leonist

I think WPA is a De Leonist....

KT
A U-tube attempt

OK: if a dinsoaur can cobble this together, cannot some younger, new media-savy folk do a lot better?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8ruItg5DEg&feature=youtu.be

 

 

Alf
not quite extinct

An excellent effort by a dinosaur! Some say there are still a few left....

The revival of nationalism, especially in Spain which saw such an important social movement last year, is disturbing and the article/leaflet by our Spanish section is very good.I thought the youtube piece weaved the commentary and the film clips together very well. Very promising and should become a regular activity. The one thing i didn't like was at the end "visit internationalism.org for your proletarian perspectives": a bit like advertising hot cakes- maybe  it would be better to have something more active like "help develop a proletarian perspective".....

jk1921
Umm

Alf wrote:

An excellent effort by a dinosaur! Some say there are still a few left....

The revival of nationalism, especially in Spain which saw such an important social movement last year, is disturbing and the article/leaflet by our Spanish section is very good.I thought the youtube piece weaved the commentary and the film clips together very well. Very promising and should become a regular activity. The one thing i didn't like was at the end "visit internationalism.org for your proletarian perspectives": a bit like advertising hot cakes- maybe  it would be better to have something more active like "help develop a proletarian perspective".....

 

Umm, hot cakes!

ernie
more analysis less advert

I think this is an excellent idea and production, however, I felt disappointed at the end because just as some analysis of the cause of the rise of nationalism appeared to be about to be offered, one was direct to the website.I think that an opportunity is missed: why not an brief outline of what we say in the article. The putting forwards of an internationalist analysis is the central need. People may be not be interesteted in going to the website but could well have been interested by an internationalist position, followed by a very brief mention of the website. However, that is a 2ndry point the main thing is that you have tried and this can only be welcomed and the next one can try and develop this excellent idea, though may there needs to be a clearer orientation to the aim of the production analysis or advert, I think the analysis is the most important aspect. 

The use of image and ideas was excellent, really got one by  the  throat.

KT
Latest video up

It's called Capital Poisons the Planet and it's on U-Tube

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skzzrDCSqlE&feature=youtu.be

My dinosaur friend who compiled it thanks those on and off this thread who offered constructive criticism and encouragement. Regarding ernie's comments above, my friend feels there are as many uses for video and other 'new media' as there are for different kinds of publications - leaflets, newspapers, magazines, books, etc, etc. This includes advertising the ICC website - why not? Someone should! The point is to do it well. However I think the latest video is an attempt to meet some of ernie's criteria - it's certainly a lot longer than the last. Don't view unless you've 18 minutes to spare. Constructive comments and suggestions for the next effort would be welcome.