Egypt highlights the alternative: socialism or barbarism

5 posts / 0 new
Last post
Fred
Egypt highlights the alternative: socialism or barbarism
Printer-friendly version

The discussion that follows was prompted by the article: Egypt highlights the alternative: socialism or barbarism. The discussion was initiated by Fred.
Below is the discussion so far. Feel free to add your own comments!

Fred
the ICC and polyphony

I like this article very much. It is easy to read and makes lots of politically interesting points that are not difficult to understand. It has already received many reads, and I am surprised nobody has made a comment about it. Perhaps people are shy. 

 

Remarks elsewhere to the effect that stuff the ICC writes is difficult for readers, reminded me of The Council of Trent in the Roman Carholic church years ago, when the question of the complications of listening to polyphonic music, then all the rage, were discussed. 

 

Wikipedia wrote:
 The crises regarding polyphony and intelligibility of the text and the threat that polyphony was to be removed completely, which was assumed to be coming from the Council, has a very dramatic legend of resolution. The legend goes that Giovanni Pierluigi da Palestrina (ca. 1525/26–1594), a church musician and choirmaster in Rome, wrote a mass for the Council delegates in order to demonstrate that a polyphonic composition could set the text in such a way that the words could be clearly understood and that was still pleasing to the ear. Palestrina's Missa Papae Marcelli (Mass for Pope Marcellus) was performed before the Council and received such a welcoming reception among the delegates that they completely changed their minds and allowed polyphony to stay in use in the musical liturgy. Therefore Palestrina came to be named the "saviour of church polyphony". This legend, though unfounded, has long been a mainstay of histories of music. The saviour-myth was first spread by an account by Aggazzari and Banchieri in 1609 who said that Pope Marcellus was trying to replace all polyphony with plainsong.  Palestrina's "Missa Papae Marcelli" was, though, in 1564, after the 22nd session, performed for the Pope while reforms were being considered for the Sistine Choir.
 
Redacted
I read through, I agree it

I read through, I agree it was very clear, to the point, easy to digest.

I still find myself wondering about the discussion taking place on the ground there. What kind of positions do the groups on the workers side in Egypt have? Are there groups on the workers side? Which groups are mobilizing people to do what? What are their positions? Who is clashing with who on those long, narrow boulevards we always see on TV?

Surely "Morsi supporters vs. revolutionary youth" is an oversimplification? This is what I'm hearing in leftist and/or bourgeois news sources.

Redacted
Something similar to how the

Something similar to how the recent article/pamphlet on the events in Turkey written by the Turkish section broke down the various elements of the protests group by group, position by position. They even gave some historical background!

A "balance" sheet like that would immensely appreciated!

A.Simpleton
Yes indeed

Drawing up the 'balance sheet' of class clash is something I feel the ICC has always held as one of the key aims/perspectives for its platform which is why I read its press first. In Egypt - as opposed to Turkey and even the crucible of war in Syria - it is a more tangled knot to unravel without 'wishful thinking' or convenient assumption the 'facts' on the ground are hard enough for even the Bourgeois Media to get at ....but then of course they can just make shit up.

Baboon on Syria for example (Spread of War shows ... thread) reports on the industrialised quarter of Aleppo where workers and their families were a real contingency in the streets shouting 'against both sides' 'all thieves': the class voice.

Re: Egypt I can only add 'lone voices' heard on the BBC World Service at 3 am where at least one can hear these voices in one's own ear. A reporter in Tarhir Square after the ousting of Morsi asked a couple of protesters a few nights ago: 

" ...so , let me get this straight, you lay down in the tire tracks of the tanks with your children to get Muhbarak and the army out of power and now you are trusting the army to oversee this new transition after Morsi?"

'..no .. no ... we don't trust the army':  said one: a bystander added: '.no..we don't trust army ....we use army'

Just lone voices from one 'bit' so I don't want to make too much of it : interesting nonetheless even as solo hints of awareness / consciousness.

AS