Illusions in the unions will lead to defeat

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Fred
Illusions in the unions will lead to defeat
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The discussion that follows was prompted by the article: Illusions in the unions will lead to defeat. The discussion was initiated by Fred.
Below is the discussion so far. Feel free to add your own comments!

Fred
impaired memories

Alex says that the defeat of a militant section of the working class, like tbe Sparks in the UK, will have disastrous consequences elsewhere for tbe wider struggle. Like the defeat of the miners in the 80's did I suppose. But what is there to stop it? I don't suppose the sparks know what happened to the miners. Our working class collective memory seems a bit impaired when it comes to recalling past struggles and learning the lessons. Only revolutionaries do that. The unions have been sabotaging us non -stop since 1968 ( and long before that of course) but being mugs, and not wanting to cause a fuss, we go along with it. Sometimes we're too nice, when we need to get very angry and fight. Easy to say of course.

( Technical problems mean that I will have to continue this in a separate post Sorry!)

Fred
So Alex says we must take

So Alex says we must take control of our struggles and not leave this to someone else. But: " Taking control doesn’t mean electing someone from the rank and file to oversee Unite, however militant they may be; it means organising mass meetings to discuss the struggle, take decisions and carry out those decisions collectively."

But I suspect that the gap between not electing someone to oversee Unite (a waste of time anyway) and the organization of mass meetings to discuss the struggle, is too big to cross in one jump. The first requires some sort of acknowledgement that the unions are not on our side. This is difficult to grasp and hold on to all the time. We may vacillate between loathing them and seeing them as all we've got. But until we realize that actually all we've got is "us", and that they are not part of us, and are against us and work to divide us - that the unions perform a deceitful, lying, and Machiavellian function for the bourgeoisie at our expense - then I dont think we're going to organize mass meetings, or take any decisions. NB. The famous mass meetings of 1905, took place when the unions were, more or less, still on our side, so at that time they were not the giant confusionists they now are, and weren't, presumably, actively working against us all the time.

So, while taking control doesn't mean electing a delegate to the union, taking control requires us absolutely to know the reason why,and to be conscious of why a delegate to the union is useless; because only then do we approach a position where we can have a mass meeting and take informed decisions for our own purposes.

I once tried saying something similar to this on lib com, and was blown from the water. Libcommers see the class as being "in the unions" and "atomized" without.( Are they not also atomized within and herded like sheep?) But seeing through the unions has to be a first step towards self-organization does it not? How can the class find it's own feet while bound and gagged by ill- meaning union officials, even if these "lads" are ex-workers in search of a career? How can we ever become a class for ourselves as long as we heed and kow-tow to the words of a bourgeois and criminal organization like a trades union?