the US Presidential election campaign farce presented in gossip form

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Fred
the US Presidential election campaign farce presented in gossip form
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What a glorious mess the US presidential election is turning into. Trump dominates and mouths off all over the place, not seeming to care what he says, who he offends, or even to give much thought to what he says as the words tumble out apparently unscripted and spontaneous.  This is the side of him I find appealing, though he's a most unappealing kind of guy overall.  He's confident enough to say whatever comes into his head, though much of it is old fashioned crap.  No stifling  repetitve cliches like Hillary's trapped in.  Trump comes across like a frustrated but moneyed member of the lumpen proletariat and holds all their simple minded and obnoxious views, which he trumps and farts  all over the place, uninhibited, like some great fascist pig dug up out of some long forgotten cess  pit  but proud of himself and his triumphant vulgarity.  He knows that money is all that counts and he's up to his eye balls in it. So what does he care? He doesn't. He's going to make America great again and that's it. (When guys like him refer to making America great again, what exactly does the "again" refer back to, and what do they mean by "great"? Nobody knows, nobody asks and nobody cares! His followers just adore him for being brave enough to shout it out aloud. They are immersed in the stench of the nationalist and imperialist ideology he emanates  and can't see further than the end of their guns,) 

What a contrast with poor old Bernie Sanders who really does look old but has his enthusiastic mass of youthful followers who think he's the new messiah. He's actually more like McGovern. Remember him! McGovern's  ghost has come back to haunt the electoral stage again. Bernie's also going to restore America's greatness, but through strictly democratic procedures which will benefit all, like welfare reform (where did we hear that one before) and probably other stuff too, though it's difficult to work out from the tv news alone precisely what exactly his new measures will be. But it doesn't really matter all that much. The point is he isn't a Hilary and certainly isn't a Donald. And the Enthusiastic Young - last seen in the US circa 1969 - have pinned their hopes for a better life under decomposing capitalism on an old man on the verge of decomposition himself.  I suppose there's a certain logic in that! In fact it's the only glimmer of rationality about the whole obsession. 

And then there's Hilary. Hilary's been around a long time. Sometimes it seems like Hilary has already been US President  twice  so historically persistent and all-pervasive is her image and pursuit of the Office. She became presidential  first time round when she took on the menace of Monica who played  around with her husband. But Hilary stoically survived all that with a domineering and stony silence which set her up well for a second presidential-style  term of office as Senator,  and then as Obama's Secretary of State. So what more can she do for her country? She doesn't even threaten to restore its greatness. She talks the talk but says very little, and has really become one of those people who is just famous for being famous. Is she not a failed machiavellian? In fact, in comparison to domineering Donald and decaying  Bernie with his chorus of youthful followers, she pales into insignificance.  But perhaps that's what's needed for the Presidential job at this present awkward time as capitalism flails about hopelessly like a stranded octopus, and nothing can be done to save it. 

Fred
guilty feelings

I think I've done Donald Trump a disservice in what I said above, and want to try and explain why.  

Unfortunately however, it appears I can't do it at the moment as my thoughts are extremely confused. I've tried  a couple of times. I'm all  mixed up with ideas about morality, which is a delicate  subject anyway.  And while I wanted to elaborate how Trump is not without his limited bourgeois morality (nationalism and the rest) this is nothing in comparison to what proletarian morality is, but I can't do it. However, I certainly would like to take back my post above, about which I feel a little guilty. Oh! What a mess. 

Alf
good description

I rather liked the way you first described the characters in this tragedy/farce. 

Fred
about Trump

 But about  Trump.  I don't think he can help being Trump and at least he's honest to himself, in so far as he understands himself and the society that sustains him.  That is to say he hasn't adopted some phony persona for the purposes of deceiving the electorate into thinking he's a good guy at heart, but exposes himself for what he is, with a frankness approaching almost the self-destructive, which only goes to show what a good guy at heart he really is. In his opinion. 

Regarding the society that sustains him, I don't think he understands that at all. He thinks capitalism is a natural given, and that all humans are motivated in a similar way to animals in the jungle. That is to say the way in which the bourgeois sees and understands animals in the jungle, all competing to be top of the food chain, and engaged  in the natural God-given war of each against all; and that he himself is an example of a person who has triumphed very successfully against all the odds. Which he is of course.  He has triumphed magnificently within the parameters of what he sees as capitalism's eternal terms of engagement.   

  That's why he's rich and can stand proud as a presidential candidate. He doesn't yearn to be President in the way that a Hillary or a Jeb Bush  do. They see themselves as transformed into suitably qualified leadership material because of their long experience in the political power game,  with a suitable historic lineage, well practised in the Machiavellian arts and able to organise politics for their  own purposes, self enrichment and glory.  But  Trump sees himself as a man with a mission. The outspokenly brave man who can save the US from the cancerous liberalism which is eating away the freedoms Trump and what he sees as the traditional freedom loving US itself holds dear at its very roots. Trump is the Rambo of the Hollywood  films turned political saviour.  

  Instead of being shocked by what he says it would be a breakthrough politically for workers if they could see that Trump merely says in plain words what capitalism dictates he should say. He doesn't really think anything different from what all the other candidates in the US election jamboree think at heart. But he says it with a brutal honesty found offensive by accustomed bourgeois professional politicians. They learned long ago that to be successful in politics ayou should never say what you think.

 

jk1921
I think Trump and the

I think Trump and the Clintons probably have a secret handshake deal. He blows up the Republican Party, while getting all the free publicity he could want and then throws the general to Hillary. The Clintons didn't plan on those pesky kids leading a Bernie surge, however. But its probably irrelevant in the end becasue they have that "African-American firewall." I mean Bill was the first black President after all.

Demogorgon
Looks like the Presidential

Looks like the Presidential race has just taken a shocking new twist. Cthulhu is standing for the Presidency! Why choose the lesser evil?

lem_
Obviously communists, even

Obviously communists, even wannabe ones, don't vote.

If I wasn't an American citizen I'd definitely vote against Trump.

He seems like the Western 

Kim Jong-un

Fred
the new Hilary

Hilary Clinton just made an incredibly impressive speech which I watched on tv. Apart from wanting to make America great again her comments about (1) education; higher education should be free for everyone  (2)  health care;  did she really say that should be free as well? (3) opportunities for everyone to develop their potential  in their working lives; (4) her seemingly genuine praise for her "socialist" opponent  Bernie Saunders and his ideas which she's actually appropriated and (5) her exposure of Trump as a has-been, with outmoded ideas, like wanting to build walls to keep people out  of the US and block the entry of unwanted and invading immigrants and Moslems, while she as President wants and promises  to keep the US open, "free" and prosperous for all, and an example for the whole world to follow and more. 

 She sounded unbelievably  and heart warmingly left wing almost like a commie apart from the obvious bourgeois lapses into national pride.  (But if, as President, she put her money, or the Nation's money where her mouth is, well, from where does she intend exactly to get the necessary money to pay for all this Nirvana-next-year stuff?)   

But she was suddenly very impressive. It was a brilliantly lying and deceptive speech, delivered with confidence, and her supporters adored it. They lapped up the socialism, forgot to remember we live under the harsh reality of capitalism, where everything has to be paid for, and there isn't and never will  be enough money to go round, never mind provide quality life styles for the middle classes which in Hilary-speak includes all workers;  and we might say she's outdone husband Bill in pulling a very political  fast one.  

If it comes down finally to a choice between the new Confident Hilary with a gift for speechifying and the raucous uncouthly  mock working class how-big-is-your-penis - as a poster on leftcom put it - Trump, then  surely she's got it made? 

jk1921
Got it Made?

Fred wrote:

If it comes down finally to a choice between the new Confident Hilary with a gift for speechifying and the raucous uncouthly  mock working class how-big-is-your-penis - as a poster on leftcom put it - Trump, then  surely she's got it made? 

 

Hillary "Negative Favorable Ratings--Might Still Get Indicted" Clinton has it made? Well, that depends on how successful her and Bubba's buddy Drumpf (why does everyone think using his old family name is some kind of insult?) is in splitting the Republican Party, so she can win with 37-43 percent of the vote in a three-way race, just like Big Bill did back in '92 (Remember H. Ross Crotch Rot?). If that doesn't pan out, I guess they can always fall back on the "You might not like Hillary Chirac, but we must stop Trump at all costs" movement that Sanders and Elizabeth Warren (And Paul Ryan?) will be sure to lead in the fall.