Forum topic: Reply to the ex-members of our Turkish section

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Forum topic: Reply to the ex-members of our Turkish section
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The discussion that follows was prompted by the article: Reply to the ex-members of our Turkish section. The discussion was initiated by Fred.
Below is the discussion so far. Feel free to add your own comments!

Pale Blue Jadal and the ICC.

It is difficult for an outsider like myself to comment on a statement like this one.  But I can make a few remarks. 

1.  Its a great pity that Pale Blue Jadal have removed themselves from the ICC and from its influence which did work to nourish them, even though they had continual doubts  about this.  But what will happen to them now?  They may well disappear, which will be sad for the whole workers' movement.  In fact, in a way, they seem already to have gone silent.  Though maybe they're busy doing things in Turkey and writing in Turkish. Unfortunately language does appear to have been a difficulty for them and the ICC. 

2. It's a great pity they removed themselves altogether from this website. Not that they had a great presence on it.  But Leo did use to post serious stuff from time to time.  Then he stopped and appeared to transfer his posting activities to the libcom website, where he was extremely active for a long while, although what exactly his aim was in putting so much effort into libcom used to puzzle.

Perhaps he thought libcommers would sympathise automatically with anyone criticising the ICC, and especially a comrade in the process of breaking away. Perhaps he thought his political ideas, which may have been those of PBJ as well, particularly on the Kurdish issue, would get a better hearing on libcom than anywhere else.  But this didn't happen. Perhaps he felt a kind of need to justify PBJ's exit from the ICC, and that libcom was the place to do it, but he didn't do this either.

Generally speaking libcom plays a sneaky and unpleasant role in appearing to offer sanctuary to recalcitrant, or  critical supporters, or former contacts of the ICC, and the stink emanating from this tends to linger.  Of course it is to libcom's advantage to have comrades from the ICC posting on their site, as it is the nearest  they ever seem to get to discussing communist politics in a manner approaching the serious. So Leo and PBJ,  if PBJ were involved, were ably to contribute something here, and raise the tone somewhat.  But it's all finished now. 

3. I suppose there has inevitably to be a problem when younger people come into closer contact with the ICC because the ICC have everything cut and dried, worked out impeccably and are always right! By "always right" I mean it's difficult for contacts to pick holes and criticise what the Current says, and for young people especially this presents a frustration. For the thinking young as communist comrades have to have something they can disagree with.  They can't be left with nothing to say! (This may perhaps explain the temporary appeal of libcom!) 

4. The young, and newcomers, need something to argue about and this may explain the appearance within PBJ's programme of the question of Patriarchy. Seasoned ICC watchers know that such an issue, massive as it is, will not be responded to by the ICC as a matter needing immediate or continual attention, but falls more under the heading of a partial and compartmentalised struggle which will solve itself under communism. But now it only acts now to confuse and derail. But there it is in Pale Blue Jadal's political statement and I guess it is a kind of sticking point for them. Are not the Communist League of Tampa also interested in such an issue? 

5. Is it impossible that Pale Blue Jadal and the ICC might come to find and embrace each other again? Don't you and them and all of us all need each other very much? 


About PBJ

I would like to remember a compromise PBJ made in their beginning: "starting point of these discussions was the critique of the theoretical positions of the ICC, our discussions quickly exceeded the theoretical framework of the ICC and started touching different subjects as well. Thus the theoretical texts we will write and share as our discussions mature will not be about the ICC. We hope the products of this effort will contribute to the reassertion of the struggle for communism."
Where are those texts which "exceed the theoretical framework of the ICC"? Where is even one point of their "road map" (which came to be much weaker and confuse than promised by the previous article)? I haven't seen nothing but a just OK article on the metal strike (nothing very deep in terms of analysis), a very bad text written by that guy Jamal that seems written for some motivational "start your revolutionary organization for dummies" book and the Syntagma Square leaflet, which is surely interesting, but again is not written by them nor even introduced by them. So where re the products of that deep theoretical work in which they were going to engage? 
PBJ is going to make a year and has only one real article, very short and superficial. Lack of theory is a sign, probably, of lack of organization and circle spirit (as they said, they were " a collection of politized circles of friends", and there's no reason to think that it has changed).
Either PBJ engages in serious internal discussion or dissappears. As for it joining again the ICC, as far as I understand the integration in the ICC is individual, not collective.


I think that the text of the

I think that the text of the ICC is very comprehensive and correctly self-critical. It was important to take on the lessons of these weaknesses.

Given the situation in Turkey today, both internatally and externally, does anyone know if PBJ has pubished anything about it?