ICC public meeting, London 10 October

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Alf
ICC public meeting, London 10 October
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This is to remind comrades who participate on this forum that the meeting on world war and internationalism is coming up soon. We would very much welcome those comrades who can to come along. We will be publishing some material relating to the meeting soon. 

 

https://en.internationalism.org/icconline/201508/13349/icc-public-meetin...

lem_
hey Alf, i'd like to make

hey Alf, i'd like to make it... i travel poorly, but will decide in a few days :-)

Alf
hope you can

Hope you can make it Lem

Alf
just in case you didnt notice....
lem_
Cool. It'd be a nice day out

Cool.

It'd be a nice day out an expression of I suppose solidarity, rather than having my opinions heard.

There's something more equivocal about the internet, and I really do think you guys are the best !!

lem_
hey, thanks for the

hey, thanks for the link

Quote:
In a situation of considerable confusion it was again the French Fraction of the Communist Left (constituted in 1942) which was best able to carry on the political tradition of the Italian Fraction, now dissolved into the PCInt. Having initially thought that the strikes in Italy announced a change in the historic course, they soon understood that the bourgeoisie had learned the lessons of 1917 and was well-prepared to prevent any re-run of the revolution at the end of the Second World War. The terror bombing of German cities, Churchill’s policy of “letting the Italians stew in their own juice” in 1943 – halting the advance of the allied armies from the south of Italy to allow the Nazis to crush the class movement in the north – expressed the ruthless determination of the bourgeoisie to wipe out the least sign of resistance to its rule in the potentially dangerous closing phase of the war. 
super pleased to finally have worked out the quote function hah.

is really intetesting, and the fact that kautsky thought revolution impossible during imperialist war really quite shocking,

i should probably admit to having claimed to (entirely non militant) friends of mine, that i think we're in a kind of post imperialist world now. did i claim it here? i don't mean that imperialist war is impossible or entirely outmoded for states, but that it can no longer succeed in its goals. for me, that suggests the civil war must be preceeded by dictatorship, by the worker's councils / organs. 

i'm 50:50 on attending btw. it's kinda like agraphobia, my issues - a psychosis residue which is exaberated in changes to setting. anyway...

Alf
the video is up
lem_
a good video, and it is well

a good video, and it is well argued (that's what i was saying in my last post) though i suppose if i were to critisize it i'd say that it's too psychological - (at first) more concerned with people's (politician's) motives than the effects of the war, of anti-fascism, or what else could or would have happened. 

it is surprising that our bosses were able to be so clearly sociopathic (i.e. motivated by murder and self preservation, next to nothing else) and anti-working class.

... anyway, when i said imperalist war couldn't "achieve its goals", i was being very vague. i guess i mean dispose of internationalism, rather than class consciousness per se. my claim was just that there are less economic divisions in the internatiol proletariat now...

lem_
hope it's going well! i

hope it's going well! i waited for the bus to london but it was late and then full... would've been at least half an hour late, and didn't want to disrupt the meeting. i was going to ask two questions, but don't really expect anyone to answer them now:

1. how should e.g. the CNT have responded to fascism?

2. given that militancy is at a far lower ebb than it was in the early 20th century, how can communists succeed today when then either the revolution failed or failed to materialise?

 

Link
role of revolutionaries

Im afraid i didnt make it to the meeting.  Man-flu held me to the setter with the lemsips and the Jura watching rugby all day long!  I have watched the video tho and think its rather good. I enjoy this approach of a photo review linked to an analysis of events, its an interesting step for our political discussions but well worthwhile. Thanks MH.  Hope to see something in future about maybe the Labour Party history or workers councils

I noted in the advert for the meeting that the ICC was going to end with comments on the role of revolutionaries and internationalists today.  I was interested to see what it had to say because i whilst i know some of what it has said in the past i have no idea what sort of approach it would take today.  

Would somebody be good enough to explain what was said and discussed on this issue? 

 

 

Alf
LInk, sorry you couldnt make

LInk, sorry you couldnt make it, I think I am also coming down with something so sympathise. The meeting went well - smaller than last year's but maybe with a higher level of discussion which we will write up. The second presentation was based on the article linked in post number 4 on this thread. 

radicalchains
??

Did you record the discussion?

Alf
recording

Unfortunately there were technical problems so we didn't get the whole meeting and so don't think it's suitable for a published version. But comrades who wish to obtain the parts we did record (in particular the presentations) can get a copy if they PM me with an email address.