Statement on the departure of the ICC members in Turkey

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Alf
Statement on the departure of the ICC members in Turkey
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Statement of the ICC on the recent publication of the text On our departure from the International Communist Current

A text by the ex-members of the ICC section in Turkey is now available on their new website with the title “On our departure from the International Communist Current”. http://palebluejadal.tumblr.com/

The ICC regrets that these comrades resigned prematurely and did not respond to our repeated requests to present their criticisms patiently inside our organization according to the tradition of the history of the Communist Left. We also regret that the comrades rejected our invitation to the  coming International Congress of the ICC, the highest organ of our organization, to present and try to convince their fellow comrades about their criticisms.

We have to  say clearly that, apart from not taking enough responsibility for the political debate inside the organization and resigning without sufficient prior clarification, the text now published contains  an account of events that is often very different from the experience of those events by the other militants of the ICC.

The ICC will reply in detail to this text in several weeks.

 

We still insist that the ex-members of the section in Turkey assume a serious debate with us.

Crisanto
Any reactions?

As part of the left-communist milieu, how we react on this statement:

"To be honest the sooner the ICC dies off, the better it will be for the communist left."

Kommunist
I believe that culture of

I believe that culture of discussion is a very important principle for the Left Communists. But ...

I do not see any reason to discussion with people who do not follow basic rules of comradely discussion. I think that the ICC should not be a Good Samaritan. If these people did not want to discuss and hurried away from the ICC, the ICC just need to say goodbye to them. This is my personal opinion.

baboon
Patriarchy

Nothing of any great depth here but a few words. I haven't read the main text from the ex-Turkish section - the print on libcom makes it too long for me to read it - but I've read some shorter points from the comrades since. They maintain that they maintain a marxist analysis and it appears to me that in general they do, but they have elevated the question of "patriarchy" and the treatment of women to the highest order which, in my opinion, has blinded the section to the essentials. It's already been pointed out to them by someone on libcom that to get rid of patriarchy you have to get rid of capitalism - and incidently the only way to get rid of capitalism includes the development of a internationally centralised revolutionary organisation. I think that the elevation of this single issue to a main point of propaganda is potentially dangerous for a marxist analysis. Leo says, representing the views of Pale Blue Jadal (I can't believe I'm typing that), that marxism has failed on the question of patriarchy. That's ridiculous. It's marxism that has raised, deepened and put the question of women and patriarchy in its absolute, historical and revolutionary context. It has solved the question through the medium of class. On the question of patriarchy, amongst other things, Engels "History of Family, Private Property and the State" tells you everything.

lem_
clash of personalities ? i

clash of personalities ? i believe alf is a communist personality, that is al l lol.

lem_
idk

Crisanto wrote:

As part of the left-communist milieu, how we react on this statement:

"To be honest the sooner the ICC dies off, the better it will be for the communist left."

nonsense in reality. a personality clash staved off as the One Truth... meaingless sentences written by decent people.

 

edit most of anarchism is a personality thing, with the illusion that no-one rises to challenge anything. sorry, i'm drunk.

Alf
sabbath

 

At the time of writing, just going out, according to the Jews, soon coming in, according to the Christians. But the principle of resting from labour holds. 

take it easy lem and spend a few days reflecting. 

 

Crisanto
Sadly everybody are silent

lem_ wrote:

Crisanto wrote:

As part of the left-communist milieu, how we react on this statement:

"To be honest the sooner the ICC dies off, the better it will be for the communist left."

nonsense in reality. a personality clash staved off as the One Truth... meaingless sentences written by decent people.

Sadly when one person said "To be honest the sooner the ICC dies off, the better it will be for the communist left." only a handful said that "nonsense in reality" ( I hope I understand correctly what Lem really meant). Only one out of 100 of "communists" condemned this statement but the 99 chose to keep silent because the "ICC is a negative influence to the communist left".
But when an organization is calling for solidarity against this kind of statement, many people scorned.
I may say, the saddest day when the one calling for solidarity of the working class is not willing to solidarize with the communist organizations of the class like what the bourgeoisie always insisted: "mind your own business" or "your problem is not our problem and vice-versa". 

Fred
mind your own business

Thank you for your post Crisanto. I agree with your feelings about somebody wishing the ICC was dead. I think it's a terrible thing to say. I don't know all that much about the communist left but looking at it from the outside the disappearance of the ICC would mark the beginning of the communist lefts' disappearance altogether it seems to me.  That's why it is so sad that the former Turkish section of the ICC should have chosen to splinter away, when the only difference to be noticed so far in their thinking from that of the ICC is over the specialised idea of "patriarchy", which is, to say the least, very quaint! 

That nobody said much about Devrim's comment that the ICC would be better off dead isn't so surprising.  Communist comrades generally are against naming names and against picking on individuals for what they say (in theory at least) so to talk about it would be tantamount to political incorrectness communist style.  But we should note that various people once devoted left communists and affiliated to the ICC have turned bitterly against it once disagreements have surfaced and murderously slandered and attacked it once departed.  Even  involving the police. 

I sum this up in the expression coined by Oscar Wilde that "each man kills the thing he loves." Comrade jk says this is merely text book psychology - which it isn't, it's Wilde - and therefore he jk supposes we needn't believe it  true.  It certainly wouldn't be true under communism where love itself would have taken on wider dimensions than the rather trivial affection for the human sexual commodity  that we mistakenly call love in this particularly disgusting and obnoxious historical period of the decomposition of capital.

As you say Crisanto  "mind your own business" is part of the ideology of the ruling class.  Don't poke your nose; keep yourself to yourself; don't ask questions; if you have doubts or insecurities save them for another day; accept the prevailing ethos uncritically; take all criticism badly and withdraw in silence should you think you have suffered from it unjustly - this is the morality of the bourgeoisie, and it does occasionally affect this forum and for all I know the ICC itself.   I know personally that it is extremely hard to resist. 

It is indeed a sad day  Crisanto when workers are unwilling to express solidarity with their class organization despite its faults. We live in a horrible age and self-hate is reaching epidemic proportions. No wonder we hide our heads. Only a fully acknowledged solidarity offers any way out. 

lem_
of course

Crisanto wrote:

lem_ wrote:

Crisanto wrote:

As part of the left-communist milieu, how we react on this statement:

"To be honest the sooner the ICC dies off, the better it will be for the communist left."

nonsense in reality. a personality clash staved off as the One Truth... meaingless sentences written by decent people.

Sadly when one person said "To be honest the sooner the ICC dies off, the better it will be for the communist left." only a handful said that "nonsense in reality" ( I hope I understand correctly what Lem really meant). Only one out of 100 of "communists" condemned this statement but the 99 chose to keep silent because the "ICC is a negative influence to the communist left".
But when an organization is calling for solidarity against this kind of statement, many people scorned.
I may say, the saddest day when the one calling for solidarity of the working class is not willing to solidarize with the communist organizations of the class like what the bourgeoisie always insisted: "mind your own business" or "your problem is not our problem and vice-versa". 

yes of course it's nonsense... and i don't sympathise with its expression... i know that the icc have had a lot of problems, but it is fundamentally confused to blame the icc for them, and then somehow wish they weren't here.

and fwiw they have IMHO the most theoretically advanced positions in the communist left (by extension, the proletariat hah). i sympathise with people that think differently, but i simply do not understand how they can explain the problems the icc has faced as the icc's own doing.

personally, i do not know how to explain that attitude, or those problems. i would suggest that it's a ferment from anarchist propaganda - based on fear of the communist left, especially a communist left which seeks to assert itself.

lem_
tho FTR i do like and respect

tho FTR i do like and respect Leo... just - no.

lem_
btw, in my schemes an

btw, in my schemes an "anarchist" is anyone who puts their own communism making or activity before that of the class, or movement toward communism.

of course that's pretty novel hah, but like mousillini said "every anarchist is a baffled dictator".