The bourgeoisie fears the contagion of revolt

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Allan Greene
The bourgeoisie fears the contagion of revolt
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The discussion that follows was prompted by the article: The bourgeoisie fears the contagion of revolt. The discussion was initiated by Allan Greene.
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Allan Greene
Latest Article by Amos "Bourgeoisie Fears Revolt"

03-08-2011

Tuesday

Dear International Communist Current Comrades:

While I am not an adherent of your tendency, but am a Trotskyist, and while I realize you do not consider Trotskyists to be "comrades," but consider us part of the capitalist apparatus of counter-revolution along with the Stalinists and Social-Democrats, I consider myself to be a comrade of you and you to be comrades of me, irrespective of your own opposition to me on that point.

And my purpose in stating this was to immediately compliment you on your current article by Amos entitled "Bourgeoisie Fears Revolt."  I have been reading it, and it nicely states what I have been thinking and feeling throughout the recent past.  I think you have captured the international capitalist bourgeois response in all countries to the working class revolts against the capitalist bourgeoisie's austerity plans in all countries, and I like your article.

Furthermore, I have "shared" your good article on my own Facebook page.  If you or any of your comrades wish to go to my Facebook page, it is under Allan Greene.  I happily encourage you to post on my Facebook page if you like, including posting posts that may disagree with my views on that Facebook page, for I have a perspective on left communism and Trotskyism different from yours.  I view left communism and Trotskyism as both being, essentially, proletarian communist revolutionary responses to the capitalist bourgeois counter-revolution that set in after the wave of revolutionary workers' struggles of 1917-1923.

I have read your positions on Trotskyism, and have many differences with you.

But nevertheless, I think you are part of the proletarian camp, and I think Trotskyists are also part of the proletarian camp.  I also post and share the writings of other left communist tendencies, and diverse Trotskyist tendencies, on my FB page, including the Internationalist Communist Tendency (www.leftcom.org, a left communist tendency), the Internationalist Group (www.internationalist.org, a Trotskyist tendency), the Spartacists-International Communist League-4th Internationalist (www.spartacist.org and www.icl-fi.org, a Trotskyist tendency), the League for the Revolutionary Party (www.lrp-cofi.org, a Trotskyist tendency), the International Communist Party (www.international-communist-party.org, a Bordigist left communist tendency) and the, apparently, second version of the same-named International Communist Party (www.pcint.org, also apparently with the same name and also apparently a Bordigist left communist tendency), on my FB page.  I also share two online links to websites that are Marxist archives, including the link to the Marxist Internet Archive (www.marxists.org and www.marx.org) and the International Library-Archive of the Communist Left (www.sinistra.net) on my Facebook page with readers on my page.  So, you are welcome, if you like, to post on my page or share your posts on my page.  I try to keep up to date with your most recent posts and "share" them with other readers on my FB page.

Again, I compliment you and comrade Amos for the interesting latest article you've posted.  I think it well captures the international workers' revolt against austerity, and the international capitalist bourgeois ruling class fear about that and the bourgeois response to it.  Thank you.

Comradely,

Allan Greene

Allan Greene
Latest Article by Amos "Bourgeoisie Fears Revolt"

03-08-2011

Tuesday

Dear International Communist Current Comrades:

While I am not an adherent of your tendency, but am a Trotskyist, and while I realize you do not consider Trotskyists to be "comrades," but consider us part of the capitalist apparatus of counter-revolution along with the Stalinists and Social-Democrats, I consider myself to be a comrade of you and you to be comrades of me, irrespective of your own opposition to me on that point.

And my purpose in stating this was to immediately compliment you on your current article by Amos entitled "Bourgeoisie Fears Revolt."  I have been reading it, and it nicely states what I have been thinking and feeling throughout the recent past.  I think you have captured the international capitalist bourgeois response in all countries to the working class revolts against the capitalist bourgeoisie's austerity plans in all countries, and I like your article.

Furthermore, I have "shared" your good article on my own Facebook page.  If you or any of your comrades wish to go to my Facebook page, it is under Allan Greene.  I happily encourage you to post on my Facebook page if you like, including posting posts that may disagree with my views on that Facebook page, for I have a perspective on left communism and Trotskyism different from yours.  I view left communism and Trotskyism as both being, essentially, proletarian communist revolutionary responses to the capitalist bourgeois counter-revolution that set in after the wave of revolutionary workers' struggles of 1917-1923.

I have read your positions on Trotskyism, and have many differences with you.

But nevertheless, I think you are part of the proletarian camp, and I think Trotskyists are also part of the proletarian camp.  I also post and share the writings of other left communist tendencies, and diverse Trotskyist tendencies, on my FB page, including the Internationalist Communist Tendency (www.leftcom.org, a left communist tendency), the Internationalist Group (www.internationalist.org, a Trotskyist tendency), the Spartacists-International Communist League-4th Internationalist (www.spartacist.org and www.icl-fi.org, a Trotskyist tendency), the League for the Revolutionary Party (www.lrp-cofi.org, a Trotskyist tendency), the International Communist Party (www.international-communist-party.org, a Bordigist left communist tendency) and the, apparently, second version of the same-named International Communist Party (www.pcint.org, also apparently with the same name and also apparently a Bordigist left communist tendency), on my FB page.  I also share two online links to websites that are Marxist archives, including the link to the Marxist Internet Archive (www.marxists.org and www.marx.org) and the International Library-Archive of the Communist Left (www.sinistra.net) on my Facebook page with readers on my page.  So, you are welcome, if you like, to post on my page or share your posts on my page.  I try to keep up to date with your most recent posts and "share" them with other readers on my FB page.

Again, I compliment you and comrade Amos for the interesting latest article you've posted.  I think it well captures the international workers' revolt against austerity, and the international capitalist bourgeois ruling class fear about that and the bourgeois response to it.  Thank you.

Comradely,

Allan Greene

Allan Greene
My Apologies to You and Your Readers

03-08-2011

Dear International Communist Current Comrades:

My apologies to you and your readers.

Apparently somehow my response posted twice.  I think it did because I did not know if it went through the first time, so I tried again.

Second, I forgot to add, another apology, which is, I mis-stated the title of the article.

It was, "Bourgeoisie fears the contagion of revolt," not "Bourgeoisie fears revolt."

Again, my apologies to you and your readers, Comrades.

Comradely,

Allan Greene

Alf
welcome

 Allan, you are welcome to contribute here. We won't agree on the class nature of Trotskyism, but we have always been more than willing to discuss with members of Trotskyist organisations and try to convince them why we think their politics are wrong....

A.Simpleton
The educators must themselves be educated ...

Although a simpleton not very 'au fait' with Trotskyism may I 'second' Alf's welcome : at least neither of us blench at the very mention of Marxism .

Your positions may not be accepted even as revolutionary ( I choose to agree with Alf ) but although my 'Marxist mother'  the ICC ( not my biological one obviously ) may have warned me not to believe 'strange Trotskyists'  , she didn't tell me 'never to talk to Trotskyist strangers' : I know my Marx : and not too naiveIy I hope ( I get my bus pass this year - hilariously called nowadays a 'Freedom Pass'...oh joy ) 

So your contribution is at least offered , accessible for reply .

*****

Unfortunately when I read polemic say re: the ICC article on Tony Cliff's death such as that posted by 'Anonymous' who finally 'came out ' as Adam ,I ....well....at least hesitate .

Not the place for that now  : I'll re-read the ICC article re: Contagion that inspired your complimentary response and resonated despite the divide . 

*****

Just one irony I will immediately point out which might have lead to connection were there not such long history of an unbridgeable gulf.

( I think it is in reply to Alf actually on Kornilov)

"Your entire post just oozes the fetishisation of spontaneity and the 'purity' of the class struggle "

Well an ICC response has just clarified and described a point in one of my posts as:

" ...the fetishisation of real spontaneous organisation by a non-exploiting class ...."

i.e. warning the simpleton not simply to " 'worship' criteria of spontaneity or purity" 

SO ....er.....the ICC is accused of taking and defending the very position that it is warning the simpleton NOT to fall into the trap of taking .

AS you say previously in the heated debate on Tony Cliff :

hmmmmm...interesting ....interesting .....does this not tell us something ?

AS

 

d-man
  A.S. wrote: Just one irony

 

A.S. wrote:

Just one irony I will immediately point out which might have lead to connection were there not such long history of an unbridgeable gulf.

( I think it is in reply to Alf actually on Kornilov)

Well an ICC response has just clarified and described a point in one of my posts as:

" ...the fetishisation of real spontaneous organisation

To clarify, I'm not a member so I don't give an ICC response, but you could say that I'm pretty close  Trotskyism I guess, especially after I read this Russian Left communist letter: libcom.org/library/letter-sapronov-isaak-dashkovskij . I think Allan Greene will also find it an interesting read. One correction, the note on Yaroslavky shouldn't be a reference to Stalingrad (I don't know how that mistake happened), but to Stalin's right hand man E.Yaroslavsky, who btw has written some interesting texts on the concept of the communist party and on anarchism in Russia ( dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/worldwidemovements/anarchisminrussiatoc.html ). He might have been Stalin's main ideologue, an underestimated figure for sure.

The critique from some Russian Left communists to Trotsky is fairly weak I must say, e.g. this one  hoped the second revolution against Stalinism would be a peaceful transition:

libcom.org/library/several-considerations-%E2%80%93-democratic-centralist

And don't get me started on Myasnikov. If you read the personal correspondence with Trotsky, it's just sad. Also Myasnikov imagined the decists took their ideas from his Workers Group, while in 1929 he only could bring himself to simply write them off as extinct. But we don't know how long the decists stayed in touch. Schachtman thought by the early 1940s they were all killed. www.marxists.org/archive/shachtma/1943/04/intro-trotsky.htm

He was mostly right, except now we know one of them, Dashkovskij, lived to 1972, outliving Schachtman!

 

A.Simpleton
'mea culpa' : and grist to the mill ...

Not only 'grist to the mill' - thanks for the links - but interesting that this somewhat 'rusty' contributor saw a valid point in your assessments which come from a more 'Trostkyist' leaning thus backfiring my assumption ! 

Just to clarify here : neither am I a member although a sometime close subscriber/sympathiser at times when there are actual events which - if you like - aren't easily analysed ( at least by me ! ) with revolutionary precision by clear Marxist principles : some basic 'irrefutable' truths which changing material circumstances don't change ( as we agreed re the dialectic of 'History does not make man' on another thread )

Like Allan Greene I feel the ICC article is a clear and excellent analysis of the 'state of affairs' : and on many occasions - both in literature and meetings - I have found their analysis similarly compelling .

More knowledge from different stances can only deepen clarity by testing one's own theoretical and 'course of action' deductions/ assumptions ' even if the end result is to 'confirm the error 'of the opposite

Apologies for 'taking your name in vain' as it were

AS

 

 

Lazarus
ICT on Trotsky These links

ICT on Trotsky
These links constitute the ICT pamphlet on the matter and are given in the order in which they appear in that pamplet.
http://www.leftcom.org/en/articles/2000-10-01/trotsky-and-trotskysm
http://www.leftcom.org/en/articles/2000-10-01/trotsky-and-the-origins-of-trotskyism
http://www.leftcom.org/en/articles/2000-10-01/trotsky-and-the-internationalist-communist-left
http://www.leftcom.org/en/articles/2000-10-01/trotskyism-after-trotsky
http://www.leftcom.org/en/articles/2000-10-01/appendix-a-natalya-trotsky-breaks-with-the-fourth-international
http://www.leftcom.org/en/articles/2000-10-01/appendix-b-trotsky-and-trotskyism-the-chronology-1879-1943